What is this thing you call, Oracle 10g?

@mcgurk passive aggressive

I'm going to hold off on the new logo design for a little while.

They are beside the 'report as spam' link.

hmmm... I see the domain name on the story description, but I still don't see view counts stats. Are they on the page where you can view comments on a story?

I'm just doing my part to keep the bullshit tag alive.

great news !!!

Now running SVN revision 620.

We now have view counts stat on the story summary. Thanks Dustin!

Oops, wrong template.

@yesthatmcgurk - is that a good bullshit, as in "bullshittin'", or as in "this is bullshit"?

Perhaps all coders on dnk shud hav amazon wishlist link on dnk donate page n dnk users can buy them stuff frm their wishlist - similar to tortoise cvs

Hopefully you don't need to run a contest for the donate button graphic :)

But really, I think that's a great idea to have something like that on the front page.

wow, thanks. I'll set something up tomorrow and post here again.

hi gavin i would want to contribute 50 USD to the logo fund... my small way of showing support to this great site :-) i can make the transfer right away if u can let me know the details

Thanks, I think I'll post to my blog tomorrow with a link to a tip jar.

I would contribute, Gavin. How about a donate button on the front page?

Would anyone be interested in contributing a few dollars to the logo fund?

Huh huh, huh huh, number 69 won, huh huh.

I am thinking of setting up a contest on 99designs.com for a DNK logo. My carlist.ie logo worked out well :

http://99designs.com/contests/4084

UnicornNinja - wow, I never new such a beast existed - interesting.

At this point, the stories are so simple that the actual application is essentially a prototype. I guess I'll move ahead with it and see how hard it is.

Thanks for all the info, guys.

Hey yesthatmcgurk,

Might I suggest that you (time permitting) use a prototype and model a couple of the screens you're planning on making using MVC? Just stub out the service calls to return fake data, what you're really interested in here is the use of controllers and views.

That should give you a basic idea of where your pain points will come in when building with the MVC toolkit and give you something to show to the rest of the team as well.

hey guys regarding my question on mvc the other day here is feedback from scott gu and his team :

Hi Raj,

There's no simple way to do this with MVC. The technique we'll look at is having server side validation logic called from the client. That way, you won't need to round trip just to validate. Of course, validation should occur on the server side again when the data is actually submitted to be safe.

Phil

personally i think mvc is a lot more easier to code (coz so much of routine code is already provided by the framework)... if you got guys who understand asp.net page cycle it really should not be a problem (provided you are fine with the viewstate problem) ;-)

Dang, sorry for the double shout.

That's true. I guess I didn't think of that aspect. I've known HTML for awhile so that was something I didn't consider when I was learning MVC.

That's true. I guess I didn't think of that aspect. I've known HTML for awhile so that was something I didn't consider when I was learning MVC.

With a small site the viewstate can be stored in the session (or dispensed with), so I'm not worried much about that, I'm more concerned with the learning curve.

I was thinking that because MVC doesn't rely on heavyweight controls, each with their own learning curve, that it would be more like learning HTML than a web application framework, but now I'm not so sure...

forums.microsoft.com is a great place to go for help on any number of different subjects.

can anybody help me in silverlight2.0

Hi everybody i m new in ur group

@Yesthatmcgurk -- Maybe look at MVC with the team. It makes the code easier to maintain and modify a little later down the road.

I saw this posted somewhere else but if the team members can understand Viewstate, MVC should be a piece of cake.

@yesthatmcgurk - mvc is not at all complicated as far as coding is concerned, however the biggest problem i face on mvc is viewstate and validation of complex add / update forms which have many tabs and many controls (like treeview , freetextbox, a lot of custom validators for complex business rules)

@yesthatmcgurk - if your admin has simple add / update operations and if you can do without viewstate i think u should go with mvc :-) else stick with webforms... troyMG would be the best person to comment on this, he really is good with MVC...

@yesthatmcgurk - great job done i hate spammers...

K people with experience with MVC, I have a question...

The project I'm working on needs a simple admin website to track a service, view logs, and do a little WCF. The team consists of four people (3 years of c#, 1 year of C#, a recovering cobol/VB6 addict and a senior programmer who has copypasted more c# code than has written). Only the 3 year c# vet has any practical web application experience.

I'd like to go MVC, but if its too complicated to code right now maybe I should stick with web forms? Anybody have an opinion on that?

Just banninated osimmassage 36 seconds after spamming; I wonder if that's a record...

@powerrush: right, they would obviously continue WebForms for backwards compatibility, but they've said several times that WebForms is going to continue to progress, not just stagnate. while I'm fully on-board with MVC (its nice to not have to "roll your own" or use a 3rd party solution now), I like having WebForms as an alternate track for when you just want to throw something together with the designer. I like MVC as my "bare bones" option where I want to build things up from scratch with 100% control over everything that is output

@powerrush: baked in validations that are swappable for something else would be perfect

@gavin: thats really awesome. it looks to me like that could be done with fluent syntax and lambdas in 3.5... should be interesting to see what (if anything) MS comes up with

to=the

Great, now we have to DotNetSlackers Mafia

Could these kickfests be bug-related? hmm

thnx for all da links n info folks dnk is da best thing 2 happen to .net community :-)

KickFest!!1!

@gavin Sweet! Now that's what I'm talking 'bout

It sure does. Here are the validations rules for a User model on www.carlist.ie:

validates_presence_of :username, :email
validates_presence_of :password, :if => :password_required?
validates_presence_of :password_confirmation, :if => :password_required?
validates_length_of :password, :within => 2..40, :if => :password_required?
validates_confirmation_of :password, :if => :password_required?
validates_uniqueness_of :username
validates_uniqueness_of :email
validates_length_of :username, :within => 4..50
validates_format_of :username, :with => /^\w+$/, :message => "cannot contain whitespace"
validates_format_of :email, :with => /^([^@\s]+)@((?:[-a-z0-9]+\.)+[a-z]{2,})$/i, :message => "Invalid email"

In the controller you can the a:

if @user.save
# some logic here
# redirect
end

The view contains the following:

<%= error_messages_for 'user' %>
<% form_for :user, :html => { :class => 'form-large' } do |form| %>

You can see the results on the following signup page:

http://www.carlist.ie/signup/private

Just click continue without entering any info to see the validation messages. (Forgive the harsh red coloured error messages, I'll beautify them later).
blah, blah, blah
<% end %>

@gavin - indeed, that sounds great. I am unfamiliar with RoR, would that still allow for reasonable SoC?

@TroyMG - they would continue with WebForms for backward compatiblity, something MS has done for decades. I understand MVC is an alternative - again, I used MVC in Java back in 2001.

@TroyMG - yes, baked in would be great, analogous to WebForms being the default view engine, but others are pluggable. "Nobody got fired for buying MS" may be a trite phrase, but it is still very true in the corporate world, especially. Corps often need a clear thumbs-up from MS, vs. OSS, especially.

There are already several implementations similar to that being worked on for Mvc framework:

http://www.codeplex.com/MvcValidatorToolkit
http://blog.eworldui.net/post/2008/04/MVC-UI-Validation-Framework.aspx

So you certainly have choices, and they should become better and more numerous over time. The question is do we want something baked into the release provided by Msft?

Rails ties model validation to the UI, perhaps something similar could be achieved with SubSonic and MVC?

http://ar.rubyonrails.com/classes/ActiveRecord/Validations/ClassMethods.html

@xtremebiz & @powerrush - I think the reason they have said time and time again that MVC is just an alternative to WebForms (and one they expect only 5% of .Net developers to use) is because of this kind of trade-off.

If viewstate and control trees worked in MVC, why would they even continue with WebForms? The MVC framework, in my opinion, is for developers who want to get closer "to the metal" and not deal with the layers of abstraction that viewstate and control trees provide.

That won't be the right environment for a lot of developers, and it won't be the right environment for a lot of projects; we just have to identify the times when it is.

@powerrush - m sure support for all of this wud b avialable v soon in mvc coz otherwise no1 wud really b able to use it in real world scenarios

@xtremebiz - I'm with ya. ASP.NET needs to have a better control and validation story soon, otherwise we're taking a few steps back towards classic ASP when we have to roll-our-own control viewstate and validation frameworks when needed.

These things are the things I loved about ASP.NET that offered more rapid development after moving from a JSP/Java Servlet MVC architecture.

At least the default view engine is a "WebForm" (.aspx) one, so _some_ controls still work, such as Repeater.

As far as "q1", you'll still need some sort of server-side validation even if you have an AJAX client-side validation, to hackers from possibly bypassing validation (assuming you're public facing).

@TrogMG - thnx for ur help man i guess mvc might not be the best candidate right now for complex add update operations :-(

for "q2" I would recommend persisting the treeview's state in a cookie, since that is really client data and doesn't need to be passed to/from the server

xtremebiz: for "q1", I would recommend an ajax call to the server to test uniqueness. for now I would recommend using something like JQuery until Msft gets their AJAX framework into better shape

I haven't used MVC in ASP.NET yet, but I'm about to within the next few iterations...

has anyone done something like this already? if yes it would be great to have some feedback on how to do this cleanly :-) thnx in advance

basically what im interested in knowing: how to handle complex validations in the view component of mvc & also how to manage state incase validations fail after posting to controller

guys any feedback on this would be very much appreciated - mvc related question:

q1) suppose we have a field ProductCode which has to be unique, currently we use a CustomValidator which makes a db call to verify its unique... how would mvc handle this type of validation?

q2) we have a product add / edit page with multiple tabs, 1 of these tabs is categories tab where we have a checkable treeview control which gets all categories and creates a treeview based on child parent relationship between categories... user can check / uncheck category nodes to assign categories for the product which they are adding / updating

when the user hits add / update we also do certain server side validations which are not possible on client side... we use viewstate for this treeview as we dont want to recreate this treeview from scratch if server side validation fails...and also to maintain check / uncheck state of category nodes... how do we handle this in mvc since there is no postback and viewstate in mvc (is there any simple way of doing this)

I just noticed that there's only 36 people on right now. Missed the lunch rush, dangit.

Kicked.

Good, all the better to kick my story!

wow, 81 users online. that's a record

guys i forgot to mention yester i was surfing dnk on my nokia n73 handset
with opera mini so this might be a problem specific to symbian os... however it never used to happen earlier... anyway i have logged this bug but dont think this would ever happen on pcs...

thanks

Ok guys i wud submit dis bug on google

Please file a bug on to google code site, perhaps someone will fix it.

I noticed that too and i thought maybe you were saving some links to read for later or something.

Thought you were just a fast reader.

Hey gavin i jus kicked da subversion story on da upcoming page but all stories on dat page got kicked

Hi,

Try these:

http://weblogs.asp.net/jgalloway/archive/2007/03/08/adding-a-dotnetkicks-image-via-javascript.aspx

http://johnpapa.net/all/dotnetkicks-plugin-for-windows-live-writer/

How can i add a Kick It widget permanently on a site..Currently the only option I see is to first set up a link from here and then copy the widget code..is there somewidget like Digg over here?

Poor Jude Thomas Lacour. Eleven minutes of work, shot to heck.

Approaching 5k RSS subscribers :-)

I'll take a look tomorrow and reinstate it if was.

Ya know... I don't know. I did see another story from two years ago get a recent kick, so it might have been.

Wasn't it posted two years ago too?

Nuked the sparkle story because it points to a 2 year old slashdot post.

Shoutbox is dead. long live shoutbox!

http://www.vietkicks.com/

Looks nice

FlashXSFX: Funny, since I recently noticed that there is some superhero from DC Comics with my nick, which was made from my initials ;)

Jemm: actually I've been using the handle "Flash" and "FlashXSFX" since before Adobe's product was released. It's a reference to the DC comics character :)

gavinjoyce: I thought about submitting a bug, but I saw the URL rewrite one, and thought it might be related. I also thought there might have been a way to 'kick' my account back to original state or something similar :) Thanks!

It is probably a URL rewriting bug, there are a few on the issue tracker. Can you please file a bug?

http://code.google.com/p/dotnetkicks/issues/list

flashxsfx: Strange. Maybe this community accepts only nicks like silverlightxsfx ;)

Seriously, I don't know, but maybe someone who can find out notices your question soon...

Hi all! Would anyone know why someone's profile (mainly mine atm) would return a 404?

Thank *you guys* for undeleteing the post-I was confused for a sec! :) BTW, the shoutbox feature is nice, so someone like me can easily see what's been going on. Nice job!

thank me ? .. thank you :)

Sirrocco, thanks - I've undeleted the post.

Shit .. to gavin, when you see this, please undelete
http://www.dotnetkicks.com/other/From_Developer_to_Technical_Manager

... I was thinking of the latest ban ... and somehow i didn't realize that I pressed the delete button on that story :((((( ....

what I meant to do is to click to see the article .... damn i'm a moron .

Hi guys,
Please d't understand me (user @prashantvictory) as spam user, i am kicking the stories to bookmark all the good stories so that i can read them later, caz otherwise i have to search all the pages of ASP.NET tag. that is why i am kicking the stories which i like.
And also i request the dotnetkicks team to provide us a bookmarking machanism so that its not neccessary to kick all stories. OR if its already there then please tell me about this,
Thanks

@yesthatmcgurk - i may b wrong at this but i never noticed any probs wid spy page earlier. Only started noticing it since last couple of days. Would use firefox n opera to surf dnk for few days n report if i get da same error. Thnx

I wonder if its still in IE8?

I don't see it in firefox or safari

Spy page problem is well known. I think its a browser rendering issue. Does anybody see it in a non-IE based browser?

Thanks

hey gavin just came across the spy page error once again, submitted my issue along with 2 screen dumps on google... thnx

i wud luv to get involved wid coding on dnk project to make it more mobile friendly, however only when i feel i can do justice to it... right now m very very busy wid my .net projects, once couple of projects go into release i wud surely ping u :-)</